Law & Coder Episode 1: A JD and a PhD Walk Into a Bar…

Join hosts Christina Natale, Director of Industry Solutions at HIKE2, and Morgan Llewellyn, PhD, Head of HIKE2’s AI Practice, as they kick off the Law & Coder podcast with a deep dive into the ever-evolving intersection of law and technology.

What they’ll uncover:

• Trends to Avoid: Combat “POC fatigue” and rethink overly narrow point solutions.
• Trends to Embrace: Harness the power of workflow redesign and agent-centric design with generative AI and automation.
• Trends to Consider: Explore agentic AI’s potential to revolutionize legal work—like Wilson Sonsini’s innovative use of AI in contract review—and learn how to assess risks and rewards effectively.

This episode is packed with actionable insights and real-world examples to help legal professionals navigate the future of innovation.

Tune in now to discover which trends are worth embracing, avoiding, or rethinking—and get a glimpse into the exciting topics lined up for future episodes!

Christina Natale: Welcome to the Law & Coder, Podcast, our very 1st episode. I’m Christina Natale, the Director of Industry Solutions at Hike2. I spent most of my career as a practicing trial lawyer in complex litigation and building out complex solutions on the cloud, using AI and hyper automation to make high volume, case management and law firm operations work better, work smoother, work harder so that I didn’t, or my team didn’t have to. I’m here with my friend and colleague, Morgan Llewellyn, hey, Morgan.

Morgan Llewellyn: Hey! Christina!

Christina Natale: How you doing?

Morgan Llewellyn: I am doing well. I guess I can introduce myself and this will give a bit of a flavor of how this dynamic works between Christina and I. So Christina and I, as she mentioned, we’re colleagues. My name is Morgan Llewellyn. I lead the AI practice here at HIKE2. If she’s the law side, I guess that makes me the Coder side. Which is, I guess, a cool name in today’s world. So I’ve got about, you know, 20 years of experience in the data science, AI and software engineering space and you know what’s really exciting I think in today’s world is the ability for law and technology to come together. And that’s what makes this podcast I think going to be so much fun to do with you. Christina is kind of bringing my technology background with your legal background. And you know, kind of just chatting about trends and what we see today.

Christina Natale: It’s funny. I always forget, because I just don’t think about it. And I realize I said, most of my career, which is almost 10 years now I’ve been out of law school almost 10 years, and you said 20, and I was like, Well, it’s nowhere near that. But it’s been a while. So it’s just how things are changed, even in my 10. But I’m sure in yours things have changed a lot.

Morgan Llewellyn: Oh, you know, I think that’s actually a really great point is, yeah, things have changed. We’ve got a lot of new technology, but the way that you implement new technology, the way you think about innovation, actually, there’s best practices and that really hasn’t changed. And so that’s a real opportunity. I think in the legal space is, you know, how do we use a lot of these new tools and technologies? But really kind of apply. You know, the basic best practices that we’ve seen. So you know as much as everything’s changed, you know, a lot remains the same.

Christina Natale: More things stay the same.

Morgan Llewellyn: Yeah.

Christina Natale: I feel like that makes me think of 2 things. Number one, how we became friends, and how we really started talking about this stuff. And then 2, why, we’re here doing this podcast is that you know, we just really clicked from the beginning on, there’s so much happening in this space. But to your point, best practice and the way that we should be doing things hasn’t really changed too much, and just thinking through how difficult it can be sometimes, you know, on the law side, I found I had a lot of difficulty building things and implementing things, because, you know, it’s getting lawyers, getting case managers getting, you know, law firm operations folks really to onboard, really and trained and understand the new technology, or even just to understand it as a 1st step to say yes, go ahead and do that right, and then I feel like for you on the other side. It’s almost like you saw the. And tell me if I’m wrong. But almost like you saw those improvements. And you understood kind of the opportunity.the space of the like high, highly regulated starting in that Hr world you were in, and then moving that into legal context where people are slower to adopt. And I feel like we really have both sides of that, like the tech plus law and the law plus tech really allows us to understand each other, be able to translate kind of between those worlds.

Morgan Llewellyn: Yeah, I think that’s right. You know, if we think about kind of, why are we doing this podcast Right? Why, you know what’s the mission? Or what’s kind of our goal of having this podcast? And it’s really to help kind of bridge, that gap between law and technology and much like our friendship and kind of our, you know, collaboration at work. It’s really around you’ve got a lot of great legal insight I’ve got, you know, maybe some of that art of the possible technology. But it’s really when you bring these 2 things together and you bridge that gap between. Well, this is how it’s done today. And this is what’s possible with technology today being able to bridge that gap and and let kind of people come together from both a practical and a technology perspective, I think, is really kind of what we bond over.

Christina Natale: Yeah, that’s actually a really good kind of segue, because I was thinking about an example both ways, one where you come to me and tell me about some you know innovation or AI use case that you know you’ve worked on or implemented for another firm or client something like that. And then my brain goes wild with like, Oh, my God! And then we could use it for this and this type of law firm could use it for this and this corporate legal department could use it for this and then vice versa. I might come to you with some cool, really tailored use case that I’ve done for a law firm or something like that. And then you come back and you’ll say like, Oh, well, we can do this, and here’s a different. So I think it goes in both directions, and I really love it. It’s spurred, I think, a lot more proactive. It makes it easier to go to our clients and say we have something that can help you, instead of waiting for them to try to come to us with ideas that they may not even be thinking about.

Morgan Llewellyn: Alright. So we’ve got one listener for this 1st podcast, let’s pretend right? Let’s pretend that one of our moms is actually paying attention.

Christina Natale: Yours, definitely, yours.

Morgan Llewellyn: Yeah, yeah, probably mine. If I’m being honest, I think that’s on brand for her. So for my mom out there, you know, what are we hoping to cover? And you know, what are we going to talk about in this podcast? So generally, we’re going to talk about law and technology and just different kind of trends and topics, you know, relevant, for you know, practicing attorneys, relevant For you know, business of law, you know, kind of operations folks and and even clients of law firms. So we’re gonna have content for a variety of different folks. As you know, we have different conversations. But for this one in particular. What are we talking about today?

Christina Natale: That’s a great question. I think we should start with just really broad. I know we’ve talked about discussing trends, and one of our goals was to talk about trends, to avoid trends, to embrace trends to consider. And for today, since it’s our 1st episode, and we’re just talking about that intersection of legal and technology, legal and innovation. I think it’d be cool to start with just that broad topic of trends in legal technology, legal innovation. And one thing that I think is really cool is when I started looking into this idea. It’s really hard sometimes to find things specific to legal tech legal innovation. And so I started looking a bit broader at just innovation and thinking about how we might apply those trends to legal, because that’s really probably a huge barrier. Right? The reason that we’re not looking at necessarily always trends in legal tech is because we’re not looking at trends in tech and applying them to legal. We’re just looking for specific legal tech trends. Do you think that’s fair?

Morgan Llewellyn: I think that makes a a lot of sense. I think I think you I think you hit the nail on the head right when you’re talking about, you know. And this isn’t specific to just legal. I think we see this a lot in industries where we get so siloed in our own industry. And we have our own, you know, specific problem, right? And we just want to solve that problem. And we don’t take a take a step back and take that bigger view of well, what? What are the trends? What are the opportunities beyond this? You know? Beyond Small little problems. I think that that is something that we see, and I think we see it in legal more so than not. Just because of you know the insular nature, maybe of the of legal compared to some of the other industries. You know, when we think about, you know, kind of trends. And I think, starting off with you know what do we see out there with legal today? And what should folks be trying to avoid? What are what are your thoughts? I mean? What do you think? I? I’ve got some, you know. I’ve got some thoughts here, but I’m curious. What do you think like, what? What are some trends that you’re seeing out there in legal when it comes to technology? What do you recommend avoiding? Kind of, you know? Maybe not at all costs, but to at least, you know, hit the pause button.

Christina Natale: Yeah. So to answer your question, and also to come back for a second, I think that that issue that we just discussed where you know, thinking beyond just the law and tech. And looking at tech is that when we become super insular in our industries, you know, we tend to. Also, we’re also limiting our solutions right? And so one of the trends that we want to avoid that I think we should talk about is narrowing our solutions to specific point solutions on the market that we think exist for our industry. So let’s say, tech right thinking as one example, just to like, take it out, I guess, to bring it in a step closer is, we think, about like, say, salesforce as a solution. And this is just an example versus, say, an advologics or a lidify right? And we think toward, okay, what is solution that’s specifically geared to my industry. And that’s just an example, not what I’m talking about here, but from there we also then go to can we test this? Can we try it out? How do we find out if it actually works, not only for our industry, which we’ve already narrowed. Right? We are saying, Okay, I’m going to go out and find the solution that I know is supposed to work for my industry, and then from there, how do we test A, is it going to work? B or our users going to accept it see? Does this affect our end? Our end users, our clients, can we, you know, can we use this solution and say, you know, without butting against our outside counsel guidelines, or some legislative, you know, barrier, some compliance with some regulation. And so I want to hear your thoughts specifically, because I know we talk about this a lot, my trend to avoid our trend to avoid, I think, should be, are we pocing ourselves to death? Are we just like, okay, let’s try this, and let’s test it on a small group, and let’s see. And then, having to repeat, repeat, repeat, Where do you fall on this one.

Morgan Llewellyn: Yeah. So I think you know the trend to avoid. If we look at what’s happened over the past kind of 1224 months. We see, you know, a lot of new and exciting tools point solutions really, that have come out there. And because of the technology. And really the the massive advancement you can think of in in terms of the capabilities. What we’ve seen is a lot of these Pocs. Right? Hey? Try this. Here’s some free licenses. We’re just gonna blow your mind. And you said a word you know, kind of earlier in there. I think the users or you, you made a comment about users. And I think that’s what we’ve often lost focus on when we’re doing. These Pocs is, you know, users and adoption. I think when I look back, you know, at my career around where I’ve where I maybe had some struggles early on. It was in Pocs, and it wasn’t that the Poc was unsuccessful. It was more to the case that we didn’t plan for the success of the Poc. That is, you know, obtaining a free license and having someone kind of try something out that wasn’t the end goal right? And we often get caught up in this process of you know, some product company. They’re offering free licenses, and their goal is for you to try and kind of get you into the sales cycle. But we’re missing that, you know kind of in that Poc kind of motion we’re missing. Well, what does it really mean for the firm? Right? What does it really mean for the users. And how do we transition from a successful Poc to a successful adoption? And I think that’s where you know that’s the one trend I would. I’ve seen out there over the past kind of 1224 months that I would encourage people to avoid avoid that free license trap. The free trial trap of, you know, kind of 30-60 days, because there’s no planning for success after that. And and that’s kind of I think we we see that kind of time and time again.

Christina Natale: This is interesting. So back to my point about extracting getting away from just legal tech trends and looking at real trends, I saw this survey from Ntt. Data the other day, and I wanted to read you this statistic. I don’t think it’s really going to blow your mind, and I also, I don’t know that you’ll have anything to really add. But one statistic I saw was that nearly 9 out of 10 senior decision makers across all industries said, they have Gen. AI pilot fatigue, and they’re shifting their investments away from those projects to to your point. Projects that will improve business performance. Do you feel like. That’s kind of that projects that will improve business performance. Does that make you think of kind of to your point? Where is this? What is the success of this Poc. What is our measure or indicator of success?

Morgan Llewellyn: Yeah, I think that was a great quote. By the way, I like, you know, the research departments really done a nice job for this. No, I think that’s a great quote. Good find? No, I I think that’s right. As Poc. You know fatigue. I think there was a lot of excitement. 12, you know, kind of 1224 months ago. You know, and you can do one Poc, you can do 2 pocs. But once you start stacking up poc after poc, it, it’s a lot of work to evaluate. And you frankly. you know you lose excitement when you haven’t delivered value after you know the 3rd or the 4th Poc kind of what are we doing here? We haven’t changed the business. We went and tried a half a different, half a dozen different tools. They all seem to kind of work, or maybe they all didn’t work, or maybe there was never a decision. We just played with a bunch of stuff. So I think that you know, Poc, fatigue, I think that’s a real. And you know it’s not specific to legal. But I think we definitely see it in legal you know. And so how do you? How do you get out of that trend, you know.

Christina Natale: It’s almost like a like a cycle like a it’s a poc on pocs. How many Pocs can you do without saying? Yes, this is success moving into production. If they’re failing or they’re not, or they’re succeeding. But we’re not deciding to move forward with them. Then, at some point to your point. It’s not even fatigue. It’s if you’re a decision maker you’re like, no, we’re not going to do another Poc, because none of these are doing anything, whether they’re free or not. You’re wasting time. You’re wasting resources, and you’re to the point to back to end users which will help help us move on is your end. Users are not seeing any any value. They’re not seeing any return on that investment.

Morgan Llewellyn: Yeah. And it’s not that, you know, I should be careful, right? Because I’ve I’ve done a number of Pocs in my career, and I shouldn’t harp that a Poc is always bad. But often, you know, a Poc is intended to learn, and then to apply that learning to something else right. And it’s back to this idea of you gotta plan for success. So if you’ve learned something right, how do you have a win win scenario set up coming out of that Poc, where, if it if we learn something and it works, we’re gonna go do a if we learn something and it doesn’t work. We’re gonna go. Do. B, just, you know, having that thought ahead of time. Time of you know, how are you setting yourself up for a win-win scenario is always important.

Christina Natale: Okay, so let’s talk win-win scenarios. Let’s pretend that we’ve whether it’s a Poc or not. We’ve got a successful. We’ve decided that we want to go live with a solution. What is your solution? Or you know, idea, what is your trend to embrace moving on, moving forward in 2025.

Morgan Llewellyn: Yeah. So if if we wanna avoid, I guess you know kind of a Poc to nowhere, I’d love the bridge to nowhere kind of references, so I’m sure I’ll I’ll make it more than once, you know, in the the coming weeks. But if if our trend to avoid is a Poc to nowhere, you know. Kind of what’s the what’s the opposite? Right? What? What’s the thing we’re looking to embrace? And I think it’s really workflow redesign. And this isn’t necessarily technology. Related. It’s if if we’re using this new technology properly, right if we’re using, you know, generative AI automation, just, you know better access to data. If we’re using these things properly, we can’t shy away from. And we really need to embrace, workflow redesign. And we have to make that part of, you know, part of the process and be explicit about it early on that we might change the workflow but we’re gonna do it for the better. Right?

Christina Natale: Okay, Morgan. Pretend that I’m just a lawyer and not a legal consultant or a legal tech consultant. What do you mean by workflow redesign in, and let’s we can kind of break it up. But start with, I’m a lawyer, and you’re telling me that we’re working on workflow redesign. What are we talking about?

Morgan Llewellyn: Yeah, I’m more worried now by the context of.

Christina Natale: You know.

Morgan Llewellyn: Like? Did I do something wrong? And you know, am I in trouble like that, like, you know? Now I’m I’m worried. Why am I talking to a lawyer, and am I going to jail? But.

Christina Natale: Okay. Okay.

Morgan Llewellyn: Yeah, so alright, so repeat the question for me, because now clear, I’m not in trouble.

Christina Natale: So well, let me take us back a step then, instead, and ask you like, when we talk about innovation and workflow redesign like, where does that live in the in the law firm in the business? So if we’re talking about lawyers, that’s maybe like a 1 of the branches of that question. But where? Where does innovation lie? And where can it lie? I guess. Right? We keep building, we keep growing. Where can innovation lie in a law firm.

Morgan Llewellyn: Oh, so that okay, so now we’re that’s a great question. And I think that’s something that in legal, I think we’re seeing a little bit of a change where I think traditionally, if you look at a law firm, and and this isn’t necessarily the case in every law firm, and there’s some broad strokes here. But if you think about innovation, you know generally, you know, you would think of that, as you know, kind of within that knowledge function, right? A lot of the innovation came from that knowledge function. And you know, you can make, you know, kind of a broad generalization to other industries as well that the innovation came from maybe the product team, if it were Sas Company something like that. But in legal, you know, think about this knowledge. But with what we’re seeing in, you know, kind of generative AI today. every part of the business can be innovative, right? Your Hr can be innovative. Your finance can be innovative, your practice of law right, your different areas of law that you practice within. They can all be individually innovative in doing different things as well as like your business a lot, folks. And so I think that’s really an interesting question. So when we talk about embracing workflow, who’s supposed to embrace a different workflow. like the the real kind of struggle here is, where does innovation lie in law firms? And to your point, like, I I think, to what you’re alluding to is innovation, you know. Maybe it’s not just knowledge anymore. It’s the technical teams. It’s the finance teams. Everyone, you know. It’s pricing, it’s marketing. It’s, you know, business development. Everyone can be innovative. And there’s something for everyone in in kind of today’s, you know, technology stack to innovate. And so workflow redesigns can happen anywhere. Yeah, I what do you? What do you think.

Christina Natale: Yeah, I know that that was absolutely perfect. It’s like you read my mind as always, because really, that was my 1st question, which is. Now, let’s say we isolate it to one of those departments. One of those one of those pieces. Interestingly, I also read today. You said Hr. Again. Your brain is just like inside of mine. Right now. I read a statistic that in 2023, because 2024 has had not kind of wrapped it. We don’t have that data yet, but that Hr department automation rose by 235% in the year over the whole year 2023. So let’s talk. Hr, maybe, right. what does workflow design mean to when we’re talking about innovation within the Hr department versus, say, our traditional tech department innovation or traditional areas of innovation within a law firm. What does workflow of redesign mean for those people.

Morgan Llewellyn: Yeah, that’s a really good question, and that honestly, I don’t know if I have all the answers or an answer, even frankly. But no, I think that. So when I think about innovation today. I think there’s 2 things. 1st of all, you have to have a frame, you know, call it a framework right? Call it a framework, a process. How do you even how do you even think about innovation? How do you evaluate the new tools that are out there. And how do you do that efficiently? I think that’s really important. So when I think about workflow redesign, I’m you know I wouldn’t be thinking about workflow redesigning. How do we do the same thing, or the same thing? Slightly better, with the same number of people and the same number of like manual inputs. It is, how do I look at redesigning my workflow with new tools? New technology incorporated with those people to allow them to do their job more efficiently to allow them to do their job. You know. Not better in the sense of. They’re doing a bad job, but better in the sense of how quality, right? Different things like that, less manual layers, that type of thing. And so I guess that’s what what I think about when I think about workflow redesign in the context of Hr or anyone else is, how do you start blending in some of these new tools? That are right. For today, with, you know, a redesigning your workflow to bring in more automation. And when doing so, kind of 2 things, how do you have a process to identify. This tool might work for me, and it kind of checks the boxes. And B. How do you have a process in place to be able to in potentially 6 months, or, you know, 3 years whatever, be able to look at that workflow again and say, Oh, I can now go automate this additional piece, or I can, you know, innovate further? And so it. You know, our workflows aren’t static anymore. They should be a little bit, you know, they should be able to be automated to a higher degree, and you should be able to reevaluate very quickly where you can make improvements and further optimizations. even though you just did that say 6 months or a year ago? There, there’s no reason to stop innovations, you know, continuous.

Christina Natale: Okay. So speaking of here is my trend to consider, how about focus on automation agentic? AI, let’s let’s see where we go with this. So you were saying, workflow redesign optimization doesn’t have to write that continuous process. I’m seeing a lot, and I’m going to read you this statistic I found yesterday I was.

Morgan Llewellyn: We have an amazing research department.

Christina Natale: I’m.

Morgan Llewellyn: No!

Morgan Llewellyn: Well, this is this is.

Christina Natale: Tell you it’s not me. had nothing to do with the podcast I was actually rolling over my Ira into my Roth. And I was like, Okay, what do I do with this? And so it started with me, researching stock trends. And this is the it came this comes from. Let’s see from law 360. And what I saw was that and this had nothing to do with the law, which is really cool. But the global AI agents. Market size was valued at 3.8 6 billion dollars in 2023, and is expected to grow at a rate of 45.1% from now until 2030, and that that is driven by increased demand for automation. So let’s talk 1st about Agentic AI, and then let’s talk about. So again, going back to like looking at that trend that has not. It’s not specific to the legal market, but like that’s the reality of life and business. So like, let’s talk about it in the context of the law.

Morgan Llewellyn: So when you read those, I think that 45% number is interesting. But I think that’s still, I think the numbers they’re talking about the dollars. I mean, I could see it being a lot bigger, right? A lot bigger than that.

Morgan Llewellyn: You know, when I think about a gentech. I think there’s been a huge focus. And and this is this is Morgan speaking here right? And this could be controversial. So you know, like.

Christina Natale: Oh, yeah, let me do like my legal disclaimer. Yeah, yeah, we didn’t do a safe harbor. Yeah. He stalks.

Morgan Llewellyn: Yeah. Great. Yeah. no. I think you know, when we when we think about Agentech, I think early on. There was this, you know this phrase that was really popular in the AI space, you know, particularly when Llms came out. And it was this human, in the loop phrase, right or human, you know, kind of human centered design. and I think there’s definitely a place for that when we’re talking about workflow redesigns that that are heavily manual. That said, I think there’s a growing need and something, you know, back to the what should we consider?
I think we should be considering agent centric design as much as human centric design, because ultimately we want our agents to be at the center of some of these workflows, being able to pass that information off to other agents, etc. And the humans not necessarily at the the center anymore. They’re kind of sitting up above right? And they’re monitoring, and they’re observing but they’re not necessarily, you know, the the center. They’re not necessary to push the next button or to move the next thing forward that’s being done by agents. So if there’s something I would love to consider, it’s really agent centered design. And how do you make the agent, you know, kind of that. That central focus point.

Christina Natale: What success metrics would you expect to see or be able to measure, at least from moving toward agent centered design.

Morgan Llewellyn: Yeah, I think a a couple of things right? So level of automation, right? Could be one.

Morgan Llewellyn: you know the number of agents that are involved in a process, and not necessarily an agent which you can think of as an automation, not not just a an agent doing a single task. It’s how many times does an agent pass off to another agent
right in the string or the length of agents that you have? So what is the you know? How many agents do you have in your Max Workflow kind of strung together? That, I think, is a measure of success. You know. Of course you could talk about dollar saved and all these other things. But I think there’s, you know, if you think about agent centered design. And you think about greater and greater automation. How you have agents being able to spin each other up, how they string together is going to become, you know, increasingly important.

Christina Natale: Okay. And since I’m apparently our in house statistics, slash research department. While I was looking into that, I was trying to see.

Morgan Llewellyn: Are you just? Are you setting me up like? What trap am I walking into now? If you’ve got stats to back this up, I’m worried.

Christina Natale: Yes, Morgan is no longer speaking to the Jg of this equation. He’s now speaking to an AI a bot But no, this is really cool. I was actually curious, because, like I said, it was really hard to find any statistics or trends relevant to legal. And then I came across this article that was just published like a month ago, and it’s on law 360. I didn’t know this. In May Wilson Sansini introduced an agentic AI commercial contracting, offering for cloud services companies in its platform. And they found it can mark up basically cloud service agreements and nondisclosure agreements through a proprietary playbook they’ve developed in its initial testing. They found the tool achieved over 90% accuracy. That’s an agent that is pretty cool. right? I mean, because if it’s me, if I’m a law firm back to your point, I think your success metrics make sense. But like, if I’m a law firm, especially right? I’m thinking, compliance. I’m thinking risk like, I want to know that it’s gonna that it’s going to be accurate, right? I want to know that it’s that I mean, what do you think.

Morgan Llewellyn: Yeah. And this is where I want to be careful, right? Because I’m you know, I don’t want to speak to any specific tool or any specific firm or anything like that. I I think the important thing here is there’s movement right? And people are trying things, and there’s a measure of success.

Morgan Llewellyn: However, you want to define that by having something done. And you know this is a trend that’s not going away. You are. Gonna see more automation and more agents. And so you know what? What I find really interesting. And I don’t wanna speak to the quality of the legal output. I think that’s way beyond my capability. However, the fact that people are putting together these tools and being able to do that, I think it is an indicator of where you know the space is going. Not that it’s going to a completely automated agent world, but it’s going to an increasingly agentic world right where agents are at the center. And you do have humans doing overview. And that type of thing.

Christina Natale: Sure, and to kind of wrap it all up, bring it back together, I mean, I think when we started talking about trends to avoid in the Poc to nowhere. I think again about user end goals, user motivations. And to me, right, a huge one of them is a what is our return on investment B are again. I know you talk about sometimes, Morgan, and we’ve not said it yet today. But one of my favorite things you talk about in legal right is like, Are we bleeding edge? Are we cutting edge like nobody wants to be first, st and for good reason, especially when we’re talking about client data. You know, documents that are high stakes. And so to me that statistic from law 360 is more. It’s less. Oh, we’re talking about the true success rate of this project. It’s this is a firm, a large firm that’s tried something, and it appeared to it’s appearing to work for them. And so we’re not 1st in trying this, even though we may not be ready to go full. You know, business grade. We may not be using this for every use case. We have a use case that we know has seen some success.

Morgan Llewellyn: Yeah, I guess you know. Kind of time together. The you know, trend to embrace, workflow redesign right like. Oh, that that seems kind of obvious. But you know, maybe if we if we loop in, you know the what should you consider?

Morgan Llewellyn: You know an agent centered, you know, kind of design, you know. Maybe maybe that’s the you know, the way to be thinking about is, look as we’re embracing workflow redesign. How are we thinking about the role of agents, not just for today, but for the future. And as you’re thinking about that workflow redesign, consider the role of agents. And not just the you know the level of automation that maybe you’re looking to do in phase one think about. How do you, you know, how do you implement agents? How do you test agents? How do you replace agents? How do you monitor those agents as part of that workflow? I think that kind of ties them together.

Christina Natale: Okay as we wrap up here today, I’m looking at our time. And we’re getting close to the end. We’re basically at the end. I’m gonna give you an assignment for next time.

Morgan Llewellyn: Is it research? Sounds like research.

Christina Natale: Yeah, that’s what I was going to say. I’m tired of being our one woman research team statistics team. So for everybody out there, Morgan’s mom. Our topic for next week next time is going to be legal innovation and adoption risk versus reward. So what are some of the risks versus reward of any sort of topic we can think of in legal innovation right now. And how do we make? How do we kind of balance those decisions based on real life. Use cases. So get out there, look up some examples of you know, successes versus failures, and be ready to shoot some stats at me next time because you’re the Phd. You’re the data guy. Come on, Morgan.

Morgan Llewellyn: I I have been known to do research, yes, and you know, in a current and previous life. So no, I I think that’ll be a great conversation. You know, there’s a couple of kind of use cases that that come top of mind. And so yeah, let’s talk about risk and reward of innovation like that sounds like a great next topic.

Christina Natale: Awesome. Well, thank you to everyone out there watching us. Thank you, Morgan. It’s been a weird day with snow here, and I always love getting to spend some time chatting with you about intelligent things. So thank you for being here with me.

Morgan Llewellyn: Alright. Thank you so much. And you know, love you, mom, if you’re listening. Bye, thanks.